World Cafe Interview - 1/14/99
I
transcribed this from a tape graciously given to me by Karen Z. I've done my best to
adhere to the dialogue word for word. A few umm's and ah's may be missing, but
nobody's perfect, right? I included the lyrics to only one song because I thought it would
be interesting to see where Ellis came from to get the finished product. I am hoping the
finished product will be on the new Live album. The lyrics didn't change for the rest of
the songs. You'll see what I mean when you get there... Any error's are mine and I
do not claim copyright to any of this. The songs are property of Ellis Paul. The
World Cafe is trademark of WXPN, David Dye and probably a bunch of other people in the
broadcasting world. I am not affiliated with them and I won't be making any money on this
either. If you'd like to check out the WXPN site, go here. They have CD's. But before you ask,
reproductions of interviews are not available. You'll just get an automated email that
tells you that. Forewarned... forearmed... yadda yadda... you know the drill.
The set up for the interview
ain't hard to master here:
David Dye - DD
Ellis Paul - EP
DD: It’s a return visit
from Ellis Paul today. Originally from the state of Maine, Ellis honed his songwriting
craft in Boston which is certainly a mecca for singer-songwriters and weeds out those that
don’t have it too. He is very serious about his craft and has shown great growth from
album to album. The new one Translucent Soul is perhaps his deepest one yet. And
we’ll hear the story of the writing and some live tunes from Ellis Paul coming up in
just a bit… It is Ellis Paul live today though, coming up here on the World Café.
DD: Ellis Paul has joined us
once again on the World Café with his two guitars and, are you still driving your Honda
or did you change cars since I…
EP: Well since I saw you I think
I totaled my last, my last Honda and I’ve got a new one. And it’s it’s
doing great and uh… so they’re really reliable cars and they’re kinda like
the official cars of the American folk singer. Dar Williams has one. I know Greg Brown had
one. I have one.
DD: And uh well it’s
interesting to know it didn’t… it didn’t die of natural causes. It was kind
of murdered. (laughter)
EP: Yeah, I (laughs) I took it
out. Yeah yeah, I almost took myself out with it. But uh, fortunately was ok.
DD: Well, good you’re in
one… one piece at least and your guitars are in one piece. Ummm, Translucent Soul is
a really really nice record [EP: Thank you] that I understand you spent a lot of time
making it. How come it took so long?
EP: Well, we wanted to do it
casually. The first… the first record that I did with Jerry Marotta, the producer, uh
was Carnival of Voices and uh, it came out a couple of years ago. And I wrote most of the
songs in the month of January and by the end of February the recording was in the can,
mixed, delivered to the label. [DD: Wow] And uh we spent two weeks recording, a week
mixing and it... the process was just painfully under the gun. And... uh, I didn’t
let the songs breathe in the process of writing them, and uh, but I think we got a great
record considering the constraints, But this time we wanted to take our time so we spread
it out over a whole year.
DD: What does that mean
"let the songs breathe"? Do they change as you go along?
EP: Oh yeah, yeah, you kinda
give them the litmus test in front of people for a while and allow them to… you know
evolve. It’s really good to hear them back … you know get tapes of them at shows
and listen back and figure out where you could change melodies or maybe a line or two to
make them more effective.
DD: Do that … that
"She Loves a Girl" and we’ll talk about it later [EP: sure] but this is a
good one.
***He sings "She Loves a Girl"
Feel free to hum it here. *grin* ***
DD: That’s "She Loves
a Girl" that’s a live version of that. You’ll find that on Translucent
Soul. Ellis Paul’s new one… friends of yours?
EP: Yes. Yeah, yeah…
It’s a good friend of mine, whose sister is also a good friend of mine. They’re
umm, you know, she’s struggling cause her folks are pretty deep into the Catholic
church and so the whole family is struggling over this issue of her sexuality and
it’s you know…
DD: Did you worry a lot about
what she’d think of the song?
EP: Well, you know, it was weird
cause she came out to me before she came out to anybody. And uh so I felt like I was
carrying this… this secret with this good friend of mine and uh… for me it was
very cathartic to like let some of the air out of the balloon by writing it. And uh,
I’ve had so many people come up to me who are… kinda have gone through similar
situation with their folks and uh, so you know she loves the song so... so it’s all
good.
DD: Good. So hopefully soon her
parents will love the song. [Ellis laughs] Or at least understand the song… I
don’t think they’ll love it.
EP: Yeah, they don’t …
they don’t know about the song.
DD: Ahhh… there you go,
there you go. Well, uh, man you just tackle so much on here. Obviously, there are a lot of
songs that are really good for people who are going through a painful experience such as
you went through. Which is you know it’s interesting I mean we all have people’s
albums to turn to in those situations and luckily I guess musicians, you know, you get to
write the songs. [laughter] Which must help somewhat .
EP: Yeah. [more laughter] I like
going to records for joy actually . [laughter from David Dye] Like you know picking up an
old Rod Stewart album or the Rolling Stones or something. But uh… you know if I get
really depressed Neil Young and Joni Mitchell [DD: Right… right] they’re sort of
my drug of choice. [more laughter from David Dye]
DD: Alright, uh… you wanna
do "The World Ain’t Slowin’ Down"? It’s one of the….
EP: Sure.
***Imagine song here… Kinda toe
tappin’ ain’t it?***
DD: "World Ain’t
Slowing Down" is another one from Ellis Paul who’s here today. That’s also
on Translucent Soul. You have… you’ve got a line in here that I just wonder
where it came from. It’s the one about the uh… "Like a fool in a barber's
chair.’’ [EP: laughs. Yeah] What made you think of that?
EP: Well you know I think,
um… how people you know gossip and talk and and um you know when you go through a
break up everybody obviously talks about it. And mine was you know one of those kind
of break ups where everyone was probably talking about it. So….yeah it just kind of
came out of the blue. [David Dye laughs] Occasionally you know the lines come uninvited
they just pop out and you’re like "Oh my God who…[DD: Yeah] who wrote
that?"
DD: Yeah, well that’s a
great one. Because it makes so much sense if you’re [EP: yeah] in that situation.
Yeah, that’s great. Umm… we’re kinda moving through the record. And ahh,
well the two last songs on it. I’d love if you could do both of them. One of
them umm is the title track Translucent Soul [EP: OK] Umm this is a song about you and
your friend Vance Gilbert who’s been on the café also. And ahh… Did he know you
were writing this song?
EP: No, he didn’t. and
generally he knows umm, just about every song that I’m writing. He gets the
phone call after a verse and the chorus are done and I just play it over the phone and
say, "This is what I’m working on. What do you think?" We use each other
that way. But that one I definitely surprised him with and uh brought it over to his
house, sat him down, and I played it for him. And he was pretty floored by it.
DD: Yeah, I’ll bet. You two
both have incredibly high voices too, you should play together…
EP: Well we’re [DD: sing
together] actually doing a tour in the Spring and ahh really looking forward to it.
We’ve done a few shows together. Ahh one in Indianapolis recently and it was just
jammed with people and we have a very… I guess public friendship in the folk world
and uh… because of that there’s a lot of synergy happening when we’re
onstage. And uh, people really seem to love it.
DD: Well that’s great.
Uhh… do the song for us. It’s a good one.
***Think Translucent Soul…. Better
yet put it on and sing along***
DD: That’s Ellis Paul, that
is the title track of the new album. And a song that I guess… I guess you could play
right before Vance takes the stage on your tour. Or something like that. [laughter]
EP: Well yeah, we’re trying
to do… we’re trying to do it together.
DD: Uh huh, wow. That’s
true, he does have lines in there. Well good song
EP: Thank you
DD: You… you were umm…
talking about a new song at the beginning, that you just played last night [EP: Sure] that
umm… you said you changed the lyric on. Can you do that?
EP: Sure, yeah.
DD: What’s the lyric you..,
you just changed before we get into it let’s see if we can notice it.
EP: Well uh, what was needed was
something to establish what happened in this relationship and it’s very… right
now it’s in its’ Harry Chapin mode and the song’s not gonna be… this
isn’t going to be the final version of the song.
DD: Huh.
EP: But there’s a taxi cab
driver driving around and he see an old girlfriend, it’s very much like like Harry
Chapin’s song. And, uh, except he goes home with her and they’re…
they’re kind of revisiting some of things that brought them together.
I judge the distance to where you ran
your hand through your hair
You were startled for an instant ,
it’d been six months two days a year
And you laughed the laugh of the
innocent as you stepped in my cab in the street
As the world swept by with it’s
violence I thought of the first night you fell in my sheets… in my sheets
Chorus:
I never asked you for nothing like
changing your name
I believed we had something here but
nothing ever came
We got tied by the language the words
that we said
When I told you I loved you did it get
in the way? Get in the way?
You lit a candle, then you poured me a
glass of port wine
I pulled the oven handle, the air felt
warm, the scent felt kind
And your kiss went down like medicine
There is nothing that it can’t
overcome
And I give to you as evidence, name the
place you know I’ll run. I would run
Chorus:
I never asked you for nothing like
changing your name
I believed we had something here but
nothing ever came
We got tied by the language, words that
we said
When I told you I loved you did it get
in the way? Get in the way?
Cause love won’t stop to
Think about the consequences
Turns a fool to stumbling over
people’s fences.
And the moon cut a frown over windy town
But you smiled as you pulled down the
shade
And we turned a corner homeward bound
taking stock in the things we made, that we made.
Final chorus:
I’ve never asked you for nothing
like changing your name
I learned we had something here but
nothing ever came
We were tied by the language, I asked
you to stay
When I told you I loved you did it get
in the way? Get in the way? Get in the way?
DD: A new song from Ellis Paul
that we will see how it turns out…
EP: Yeah it’s still...
it’s funny like I feel like now the first verse is finally done and the first half of
the second verse is where I want it. Then I have to do the second half of the second verse
and the bridge is fine. And then I have to edit the third verse. And what I’ll do is
just tweak a line and I’ll play it and I’ll really try and just sense
what’s… what’s happening with the audience and whether they’re
focusing and readjusting to my adjustment [DD: Huh] and if they are following me then
I’ll keep the change. And um… so it’s fun ya know. It’s, it’s
like uh…. it’s in the fetus stage but it’s sort of… we’re
all… we’re all watching it grow.
DD: What a process.
That’s... that’s amazing. So, you … I mean you could play it like five or
six, ten times before you had it down.
EP: Oh yeah, I’ve had the
guy be a cabby driver, I’ve had the couple meet at a bar. [DD: Uh-huh] And not
even enter a cab, you know, there’s all sorts of things, but ummm…. What I…
What I do a lot... is I… I’m a student of songwriting, you know, and
I’m trying to um… tackle everybody’s catalogue and sort of write in the
vein of everybody at least a few times. Like think in the way that Bob Dylan thinks. Think
in the way that James Taylor and Joni Mitchell thinks. And write a song in that vein and
that way I sort of incorporate their thought process. Most… most people actually
learn the people’s songs, but uh since I’m a performing songwriter I don’t
have time to do that. Umm... I never did it, you know, as my development happened. I just
dove into songwriting right from the beginning which I think slowed me down a little bit.
But uh… but what I do to compensate for that is sorta think in the way that… on
that song definitely in the way Harry Chapin thought and I use the taxi thing as a
reference to that.
DD: That’s really
interesting because they always tell songwriters to write like… and that’s one
of the things that they tell people is to… when you’re starting out obviously
you can do your own story but examine how people put songs together. [EP: Yeah] That
way… and of course you’re also talking about voice here in a lot of ways. And
that’s really the most important thing. Wow, very interesting. We’ll see if that
ends up being a Harry Chapin song when you’re done.
EP: [laughs] I love
"Cat’s in the Cradle", it’s such a …. but you know I found out
that his wife wrote the lyrics to that [DD: Oh] because he was gone all the time on the
road playing music. She wrote this poem for him and when he got home it was sitting on the
dining room table or something and he put music to it and it was his biggest hit.
DD: And it’s interesting
what the song’s about. [laughter]
EP: Yeah.
DD: So , well that’s fun.
Well, thanks a lot for coming by...
EP: Thank you for having me.
DD: …and we look forward to
your tour. ...Look forward to your tour… You’re always touring [EP: Yeah]
but the ah… whole thing with Vance.
Fade to Black… The
End
